Host and Guest Relationships

[meek]

Hi Meek,
Sorry, if this has been taken as an advert. I just have the habit of writing my thought via my blog. Usually I would duplicate it over, however, in this case, since I have not written any, I would had just say so. Any good soul would like to guide me to use the profile instead?

If you are good, and people can tell by reading your posts, they will want to go to your blog. There is no need to keep teasing and when they ask about it, you tell them to go there. In fact it makes you sound desperate for visitors.

[Banned: y*********]

Hi Cyril,

You have the entire ShenXi XuanKong Xue in three volume and JiBai Jue in 2 scrolls to decipher. That will keep your expert busy... BTW, by your standard you know what I am talking about, just don't keep going in rounds with this sort of delirium.

Hi Meek,

I don't really bother about visitors. 
BTW, since you have put it so nicely, I had rest my case. So, it is not a question of choice. Also, never had I said I am the teacher. There are other teachers like you do who is more qualify to make thing simple... :-)

In conclusion, teasing is quite comical. I would prefer it to be provocateur. At least, an idea is tested not bias to personal attack or no hold bar insult. It is an opinion that is not binding to anybody except the author. At the very least, we save grace for this field of metaphysics.

Cheers and Good Hunting

[moonchin]

To make a simple theory to sound very complicated to impress is easy
But to explain a complicated theory to sound easy for simple understanding is difficult.
That what it takes to differentiate a good teacher to an impressive teacher

Regards
Siong

With no offence and no specific reference to anyone, may I…..

From the awesome working of the hands of the Powers-that-be, its wonderful that some of the seemingly simple Ah Bengs, Ah Longs, Ah Lians and Ah Huas have more wisdom than the Johns, Jacks, Marys and Lucys of this world.

Moonchin

[moonchin]

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 Back to the topic. Host and Guest.
- Host is the one that is there all the time, Guest is the one that comes and goes
- Host is the one that arrives first, Guest is the one that arrives later
- Host is the one that is non-moving and guest is the one that is moving
- any memebrs please feel free to add more...

This is a correct idea of Host and Guest. 

Generally, modern day students of Chinese Metaphysics tend to erroneously equate  主 Host and 客 Guest to 体 Ti and 用 Yong. The Host Guest concept originated from the concept of Ti and Yong but it is not exactly the same. 

Ti is translated loosely as Body or Base and Yong is Application or Utilisation. 

The whole concept of Ti Yong is to dialectically separate the given factors into a Base or Body and, Application or Utilisation.  The Ti Yong concept is all about derivation of a separate Body or Base where it can be Utilised as an Application Tool.

For eaxmple:
Heavenly Stems (Tian Gan) and Earthly Branches (DiZi) both combined as the Ti (Body or Base Principle).  The resultant Sexagenary Cycle or 60JiaZi as the Yong (Application).  In between before arriving at the resultant Sexagenary Cycle, is the Formula.  Therefore between Ti and Yong is the Formula. As in:

Ti + Formula = Yong

The resultant 60 JiaZi becomes Yong or Application where it is utilised in the Chinese Calendar system as Time Indicators.

On the other hand, Host and Guest are totally different in meaning from Ti and Yong.  Host can only be considered as the Base Reference Point, and Guest can only be considered as ‘the other factor’.

Guest is ‘the other factor’ in question, where the Result of its interaction with the Base Reference Point is the Focus or Subject of Analysis.  To arrive at the Result, one needs to apply a given formula.  This given formula is the Yong or Application Tool that also could have been derived from a Ti.

For example, fundamental XuanKong Formulas were derived from the LoShu.  The Ti or Base of the LoShu was the HeTu.  Therefore you can see clearly the  Ti Yong of the HeTu and LoShu.  The LoShu principles then became the Application Tool for derivation of analytical results.

As an example, if we are talking about a Flying Star chart’s analysis, a part that is looking at the macro effects, then the statement – “Host is the one that arrives first, Guest is the one that arrives later” is correct. 

At the macro level, one form of analysis is to look at the Base or DiPan which is the LoShu and it would be considered as ‘the one who was there first’ (Host), and the Period chart or Yun Pan as the ‘just arrived’ (Guest). 
Auspiciousness or inauspiousness can be analysed based on the elemental interaction between the Host Dipan and the Guest Yun Pan via a given formula.

Therefore from the examples mentioned above, one can see that the Host and Guest should not be equated to Ti and Yong.

To say that the Host and Guest concept is akin to the Parent and Child concept is erroneous and misleading.


MoonChin

[esc]

so we should always focus on the Host and see how the Guest is trying to interact?

 

[Cyril]

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[Banned: y*********]

Hi MoonChin,

Never expected a huge jade from you, when I threw in the bricks.
Well said and nicely written.

Cheers

[Cyril]

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[Banned: y*********]

Hi Cyril,

Appreciate your caution. I find it astonishing not otherwise quite a stale discussion in nature. Perhaps my way of provocateur is a little too carried away. I shall see to that. Good if you could direct these arrows and stones into better use rather then waste it unnecessarily.

cheers.

[Chris Lai]

Thank you MoonChin.

A great and insightful post. Definitely enlightened many beginners just like myself.

Best regards,
Xuan

[Cyril]

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[Ah Siong]

Hi Meek & quahbkc
Great Host.  

Hi Moonchin,
This is what we call a surperb good teacher ,
a complex theory from ancient wisdom become easy enough for me Ah Siong..& all the Ah... brothers & sisters to understand, thank you very much

Hi ,
without you, a great scout doing what the army called " recce by fire" to the bushes
we won't have got this precious Jade from Moon.

Just my 5th post, thank quahbkc for reducing quota else i read
Blank, Shall work hard for more Quota
what a wonderful website.

Regards
Siong

[meek]

Hi MoonChin,

Never expected a huge jade from you, when I threw in the bricks.
Well said and nicely written.

Cheers

Hi David,

There's a chinese saying, "If we didn't get into the fight, we might not have the chance to become friends." But I think if you throw a brick and hit someone accidentally, you get an angry man instead. 

[meek]

Hi moonchin,

Thanks for clarifying the difference between Host/Guest and Ti/Yong.

 

[moonchin]

Hi moonchin,

Thanks for clarifying the difference between Host/Guest and Ti/Yong.

 

Meek, You're most welcomed.


To others,
Thank you very much for the compliments.

so we should always focus on the Host and see how the Guest is trying to interact?

 

Right.  But you dont need to 'purposely focus' because it is a natural occurring phenomenon.  In any form of analysis, be it FengShui (or Chinese Metaphysics in general), Scientific or Philosophical,  there always will be the need for a 'Base reference point' and 'the  other factors' to complete the cycle of investigation.

To further explain what I had mentioned in the earlier post...
The Base is the LoShu chart, and NW is Qian Gua (Metal), and now in Period 8, Li Gua (Fire) flies to the NW sector.
Now, you have a Macro level situation of Fire Burning Heaven (6 & 9).  You can lump this together Li Gua in Qian Palace and make it into a 'Base reference point', and then use it to analyse the mountain (sitting) and water (facing) stars that arrived to the Qian palace.

You can use the most common method -- use the 'arrived' Li Gua (9) as reference point to analyse the effects of sitting and facing stars;
You can also use the DiPan Qian 6 as reference point to analyse the effects of sitting and facing stars;
You can use the sitting star as reference point to analyse the facing star's effect;
You can use the facing star as reference point to analyse the sitting star's effect.

The same goes with yearly, monthly and daily stars.  Any one can be a 'Base reference point' as long as you know the order of sequence.  Once you understand this very basic methodology, you will be able to apply all the formulas that you had learned in any situation.

What I had just mentioned also explains one of the meanings of this commonly uttered phrase:  物物一太极 (there is a TaiJi in every phenomenon).

Happy learning.


MoonChin