Is Bazi real?

[creekist]

For the purpose of this post please don't read other people's replies until you have replied and then can discuss.

So whoever replies to this post please make it as if they cannot read your post until they have replied to this topic.

Lately I've noticed I've been cherry-picking data. Meaning I'm forgetting what contradicts Bazi and remembering what goes with Bazi. Half of what Bazi says is wrong, the other half is right. Half of the things in a person's chart are right the other half are wrong.

I've been looking at my chart and the charts of several friends and I have noticed how things don't make sense or contradictions or just plain simply how Bazi is wrong. And even if something is wrong my mind or the mind of a person who reads Bazi can simply twist it around and come up with some kind of a solution as to how it is right or make sense.

I even took the birthdates of 107 Serial Killers and took their Daymaster and Strength and there is nothing significant about it. There is a kind of equal distribution of the Serial Killers among the elements but not really so equal in terms of strength. But hey what can you expect it's only 100 people, some variation has to occur. Plus I was using a calculator or a formula in both situations for calculating Strength which could have lead to bias, even though it would have been more biased if I had assessed strength.

My point is do you or do you not believe in Bazi in the depths of your heart do you really think Bazi is real. Were you just looking for answers in a confusing time. Do you think what does Time and Date of birth have anything to do with what type of person I am at all.

There have been numerous scientific tests to find out whether Astrology was real at all. In some of them I read it was as if the results were pulled out of a random number generator, 50/50.

Plus it's also hard to tell if Bazi is right anyways, Bazi says something, your parents say something. But who's right, maybe your parents are lying or are just saying you're special. As parents are obviously biased towards you. So in cases it's perception and the way you believe or what you think reality is according to what Bazi tells you. Maybe you think you're gay but you're really not but Bazi tells you, you are not Gay and then you're like but I am Gay. But how would you know if you're not Gay or not. You only think you're Gay but you don't know that, how would you know, Bazi was going to tell you, lol.

Which leads to the question of what is real and what is not real. How can we know this is real, how can we know we are not distorting this beyond reality.

Which leads to Solipsism.

So hands down what do you think. It's kind of funny but have you noticed how ridiculous it is to believe in religions. I mean there is no single speck of evidence supporting or not supporting Christianity and all other religions. IT'S SO RIDICULOUS. I MEAN HOW COULD GOD BE REAL AT ALL, TURNING WATER INTO WINE? NOBODY HAS EVEN SEEN OR DONE ANYTHING LIKE THAT. But I mean nobody thinks about it that way. They don't feel it's ridiculous, in their heart they believe and feel it's real and they go along with it. But if you introduce your logical mind to it it recoils. You think wait a minute WTF how could this be real at all. I mean I use to believe in Buddhism (maybe I still am) but) I realized I had seen no evidence for reincarnation for desire leading to suffering (even though logically it's kind of true) or evidence of enlightenment but I stil believed it. And then you realize members of a religion don't necessarily actually believe in it like all the stuff they can't prove or disprove but they are still part of it, they kind of speculate about it but don't necessarily believe about it. They hope on it?

[coca]

Dear Creekist,

I did have the same thinking as you, I also concern about religion. Now, I can say I'm happy with my own understanding (even though i still lacking of understanding) about what I believe. I Think God is Exist

What I can say to you that,  Faith and History is two different aspect to view a religion.

[creekist]

Thanks for your reply man. I guess oh god.

[Tanpai]

Hi Creekist,


"Which leads to the question of what is real and what is not real. How can we know this is real, how can we know we are not distorting this beyond reality."

The Zen Buddhism formulates the illusory nature of all phenomena on a brilliant manner.
I agree with your opinion totally. I studied  until long time the astrological methods and  I believe  now the best method the  Yi Jing…
Paying attention to the current troubles is the good method that knows the most accurate answer.

Tanpai

[norr]

haha....enjoyed your post, Creekist.

Just a note on the water into wine thing; concerning religion/spiritual the main is on the symbolical - anyone having aquiered mastery of symbolic language can realise its spiritual "domain" so to say. This may also mean a manifestation of its symbolic representation in the world of physical form. This is what happens when the alchemist transform base metal into gold. Which cannot be done without having "seen" the spirit of it. LOL, it never happens anymore.

Jesus walked on water too, as also is told of sages in the sacred Chinese texts. A being able to walk on water has mastery of the material world, and this what the story is telling, not really that they walked on water.

I think you're right in many of your observations; most of us do mind tricks with bazi and FS too, But there's also something called sacred astrology (nobody interested these days?), which doesn't mean astrology is "religion". It's like the old discussion if FS is religion or not, and of course it's not.

But for the metaphysical to be genuine it has to be confirmed by the sacred and not go against it. So Astrology abd FS may seem to be like "religion" allthough only "seem to" due to this relation.

[Chris Lai]

Hi creekist,

On the subject of god, you should read the book titled, "The American Gods' by a famous comic author, Neil Gaimen. He has very profound and interesting views on religion, faith and gods.

He believes gods can die too based on the very fact of why they are made immortal simply because people always remember them. Imagine, if one day everyone forgets a particular god, do you think this god can still be real?

He further mentioned that if there isnt any god, human will create one too, simply because there are many things or events that are beyond human control or logical explaination. It does make some sense, otherwise human will go insane trying to seek the logical truth or scientific explaination of some supernatural things.

On the question of 'Is bazi real', my stand is that it's a tool to anaylse a person's destiny chart, emipircally. To me BaZi is a tool with certain set of rules build around it for practitioner to use. However, the practitioner's experience in life and analytical skill will influence how he or she analyse and conclude the chart based on the question asked.

Even within BaZi practice, I believe practitioners can specialise too. Some can be good at analysing career, some are good at analysing spousal relationship, some in wealth etc. The matter of interest to one practitioner make him or her more sensitive then others in the subject matter. Perhaps, you can start by narrowing down to one area of interest to you, research more into it and see if you can achieve better accuracy?

If ancient sage took a life time to develop and master such skill, perhaps we should take our time and let it grow in us too?

Regards,
Xuan

[theway]

Hi creekist,
Although I agree with you that there is an art to the interpretation of bazi (that's the key), the wrong readings that you are getting could be a result of not examining the different layers of all the pillars. For instance, if a book or master tells you that a jia DM will be successful because as a tree will grow big and strong upward, etc... and you find someone who is totally down on their luck... you have to examine all the other pillars and the LP to see why they don't adhere to this "rule"... (I know, this is just a simple example). Besides, it is much harder to interpret correctly, as there are so many "rules" and so many "rulebreakers."

Have you checked what is "similar" in the charts of the serial killers? Maybe they all had violent tendencies in their charts?

On the matter of "how do you know if you are gay?" Uh... shouldn't you know if you are gay? A friend once asked me how do you know if you are gay if you haven't had sex with anybody, like for instance, if you are a virgin? To me, there IS an answer for that question: if you are attracted to individuals of the same sex, you are gay; opposite sex, then you are heterosexual; both sexes, then you are too greedy and want it all... lol...  If you don't know, then you are confused.


As for religion, I am not the most religious person in the world, but I try to be spiritual and I do believe there is a higher being. All that stuff you mentioned about turning water into wine, etc... stuff that could not possibly be done... notice that books like the Bible were written by PEOPLE? and not by God, herself? They are meant as allegories or ppl back then and even now actually believe that a divine being could perform these tasks that no ordinary human can. Besides, scientists have long known that there is a pattern in everything in nature. I'm not saying that a God created all things, but there is no disputing that there is some kind of order in this universe. Besides, feng shui and even Chinese astrology really has nothing to do with religion, but more to do with the order of things and how we can benefit by going with instead of against this order.

Regardless, I also firmly believe in reincarnation... if you search utube for that topic you will find lots of interesting tv shows where they interview ppl who remember events from their past lives... if you were to hypnotize yourself, you would find that you could probably recall some stuff. I ask you this: how come with all the different religions in this world, that ppl of all different backgrounds have talked about a past life???

Does that mean you also don't believe in the existence of qi?

--Amy
P.S. I don't mean to sound combative, please excuse me if I do. Just want to invite some more discussions, as you have brought up a good topic 

[creekist]

Ok first how old are you and second of all I'm not like a noob analyzer.

I don't go look at the DM and say hey he is Jia Wood he must be lucky, but he's not. I have never thought like that and I never will.

I have read that there are many beginner practitioners who have done that but I haven't.

If you interpret something then anything goes.

Here's a chart...

Ah nvm there's just no point arguing with you.

I'm not some noob who is just complaining I have looked for years for answer I've been a part of various religions, I have researched various paranormal phenomena, I've researched psychology and psychiatry in depth as well.

[creekist]

So you believe in past lives simply because people have said they remembered them and had visions of them?

Do you believe in Out of Body Experiences? Did you know they found out when you shut off the visual part of the brain the Out of Body experience stops? They don't exist, it's like a highly detailed hallucination (I think).

I'm not going to believe in past lives just because some guy says he remembered them or have visions I've been through this cycle thousands of times (not literally). People fool themselves into believing this stuff. I'm basically saying that everyone who believes this stuff is a weak idiot who conveniently forgets what contradicts what he believes in and remembers what does.

I don't analyze charts like a noob, I look at the entire chart. I don't use calculators to determine strength, I use first glance at it. I use interpretation (calculators help sometimes though).

ok cya...

[meek]

Lately I've noticed I've been cherry-picking data. Meaning I'm forgetting what contradicts Bazi and remembering what goes with Bazi. Half of what Bazi says is wrong, the other half is right. Half of the things in a person's chart are right the other half are wrong.

I've been looking at my chart and the charts of several friends and I have noticed how things don't make sense or contradictions or just plain simply how Bazi is wrong. And even if something is wrong my mind or the mind of a person who reads Bazi can simply twist it around and come up with some kind of a solution as to how it is right or make sense.

I even took the birthdates of 107 Serial Killers and took their Daymaster and Strength and there is nothing significant about it. There is a kind of equal distribution of the Serial Killers among the elements but not really so equal in terms of strength. But hey what can you expect it's only 100 people, some variation has to occur. Plus I was using a calculator or a formula in both situations for calculating Strength which could have lead to bias, even though it would have been more biased if I had assessed strength.

I'd like to ask a question. Did you come to this conclusion after learning every part of bazi system?

So hands down what do you think. It's kind of funny but have you noticed how ridiculous it is to believe in religions. I mean there is no single speck of evidence supporting or not supporting Christianity and all other religions. IT'S SO RIDICULOUS. I MEAN HOW COULD GOD BE REAL AT ALL, TURNING WATER INTO WINE? NOBODY HAS EVEN SEEN OR DONE ANYTHING LIKE THAT. But I mean nobody thinks about it that way. They don't feel it's ridiculous, in their heart they believe and feel it's real and they go along with it. But if you introduce your logical mind to it it recoils. You think wait a minute WTF how could this be real at all. I mean I use to believe in Buddhism (maybe I still am) but) I realized I had seen no evidence for reincarnation for desire leading to suffering (even though logically it's kind of true) or evidence of enlightenment but I stil believed it. And then you realize members of a religion don't necessarily actually believe in it like all the stuff they can't prove or disprove but they are still part of it, they kind of speculate about it but don't necessarily believe about it. They hope on it?

Religion is a very sensitive subject. As this website is about five arts, please do not discuss religion here. Google for religion boards instead.

[creekist]

Surprise me. Prove me wrong, I've been noticing more of it now (egocentricity, cherry-picking of data). Did you know I'm even twisting facts or completely changing them?

I'm like yeah what a coincidence all my family members are DM Earth and then I check what I wrote down (just happened to be doing that) and then it turns out my Mom is metal.

And then later on I'm like I've never seen a person with a DM sitting on top of the Element that produces it. And then later I realizes I have seen people like that (not sure how many).

No I have not studied a lot of Bazi. In fact I have only read 2 books. Bazi information is hard to get a hold of, this information should be free not for money.

[theway]

creekist,
You misunderstand, I am NOT trying to argue with you. That example I gave was waaaaayyyyyy simple cuz I didn't feel like thinking up more complicated ones, lol... You posted in this thread hoping for reactions, and I just stated what I believed. Obviously, you can believe whatever you want.

Besides, religion is MANMADE. To be a good person is all you need, spirituality and good qi...

--Amy

[borneo219]

Hi Creekist
I studied Bazi for many years through research and guidance by Sifu.
It was very very confusing cause the answers were not very clear.
I met a good Sifu this year and his interpretation of things were never ambiguous and most of the time very accurate and to the point.
His interpretation of the Bazi is exactly what Joey Yap's book title describe.
It is the destiny code. Everything is written in the eight character.
What you are entitle to get in this life, what you owe, when and how.
Bazi cannot be proven for future events but we can check past events. Example when something bad happen during certain years and we analyze the cause through Bazi interpretation.
The most important thing is getting a few facts correct.
Day Master strength - this is such a critical point that books, formula, equation have been written on this topic.
The twelve stages of life calculation.
The ten god analysis.
The useful god. The luck god.
The not useful god.
The combination and clashes.
The stars.
The interpretation of all the above will determine the correctness of the reading.
We have been checking past events of friends and have found amazing results.

Something we noted for a destruction of zi (rat) and you (monkey).
In chinese character the you represent a wine container.
And in chinese character wine is represented by water (zi) combining with You (the wine container)
This destruction code is related to drinking.
I am still looking for gambling code.
Can anyone advise me on the destruction code for wei (goat) and xu (dog)? its meaning
Joey Yap's interpretation on the various meanings of punishments, harm, clashes are so amazing when we check back the results of past event.

[creekist]

Bazi cannot be proven for future events but we can check past events. Example when something bad happen during certain years and we analyze the cause through Bazi interpretation.

Haha yeah I find that funny. I noticed after doing a lot of reading on my own chart and determining USeful God several times and then I looked at the years where and I did well and the years where I didn't and it was totally something I unexpected.

But if put that way that Bazi can only make sense in hindsight and can never really predict because Bazi is like the science of figuring out your own chart. It's like... In Bazi, Bazi is not a science, Bazi is figuring out your own chart and that is the science. It's a Science within a Science. BAZI IS THE SCIENCE OF FIGURING THINGS OUT, the science OF figuring things out. IF you get my meaning, if you don't well think about it then.

See the year which I did well were Jia-Shen and Yi-You years, but people say Earth or Fire should be my Yong Shen. The years I did bad in were Wu-Zi years or Gui-Chou years, or something like that, it was Earth-Water for sure. So Bazi may not even be real, because so far what everyone has been telling doesn't make sense and doesn't work. I tried some Fire Feng Shui and some Earth Feng Shui, not really that much better, life just doesn't get better.

So in hindsight basically what I'm saying is, if Bazi only makes sense in Hindsight that means it's not real because whatever you look at in Hindsight can you make up every little excuse for whatever happened. YOu can analyze every little clash, or combination, hidden stems, destructive elements, pressure, five element interactions and come with some kind of excuse. Your mind can trick you and you can cherry pick data egocentrically and you can twist and change everything until it makes sense again. Then you come to a supposedly scientific solution or conclusion.

And when you look at another chart it doesn't make sense.

And when you try to predict the future it doesn't make sense.

This is because Bazi isn't real, everything makes sense in hindsight but you can twist and make up an infinite amount of excuses for why it makes sense or made sense and how it worked or works. Let's take a famous dancer, this dancer is Jia Wood with lots of Water, he becomes Famous, but fame is the Fire element, BUT WAIT!!! there is a new interpretation, when there is lots of Water it must become Fire, GASP, so that's why he's famous.

And anyways by point is with a lot of self-decieving and battering anything can make sense in hindsight and this why my future predictions and your future predictions and everyone else's future predictions and the world's future predictions have always failed.

Because the future is unknowable and this is what makes the world exciting. No one can know it and God made it this way to ensure that no one gets life ruined for them and no one gets the upper hand, it's as sure as someone dying. Everyone will die too, as God ensured.


Even if knew the position of every atom and had a super-computer of vast computing power to calculate every such reaction and thus the future outcome it would take more time then the universe had existed to complete it's calculation. This is a scientific fact I read.

So this is my point, the future is unknowable, your life cannot be reduced to 8 characters. If a super computer of vast computing power can't do it what makes you think 8 characters can.

There's so much stuff I can rant about, from atheists, to heaven and the need for religion in man. I  have always read paranormal stuff and my interest has always lay there. You know, as it has been said by the Koran: I paraphrase: No one knows the future, only God does, the soothsayers and Fortune Tellers are nothing, the Jinn fly up to heaven to eavesdrop on the gossip of the Angels to discover the future events and they fly back to the Soothsayer to give information, however due to lack of information or real material got from the Angels the Jinn give the information they go to the Soothsayer and mix it with 100 parts BULLSHIT, the 1 part of truth they got also going inside.

Nowadays because of the Angel's and God's discovering of this phenomenon whoever Jinn dare fly up to Heaven we fire upon them Great Balls of Fire to chase them away in the form of Comets and Meteors, and with the Jinn's dying breath they give the Fortune Tellers lies and a little truth.

Ever since the birth of Mohammed, Peace Be Upon Him (even though I'm not Muslim), we have been aware of this phenomenon and deal with Jinn accordingly like that. This is why in the past great ancient soothsayers and astrologer's predictions were so accurate because the Jinn actually gave accurate information and they were able to become famous due to these predictions and information. But nowadays because of the Jinn being fired upon and not being even allowed near the gates or vicinity of Heaven or the lowest Heaven they can no longer get information. Or they only get a little, because of this they mix many lies and BULLSHIT and [c~!@#$%^&*_+?] with it and some times it's all lies as well. And this is why AStrology and predictions nowadays are often [c~!@#$%^&*_+?] and unpredictable and not good, and have lost all predictive ability.

Especially if the method or text was divinely revelated by some being who claimed to be a Great God or an Angel. Probably Bullshit and some [c~!@#$%^&*_+?] information being gotten from a Jinn or demon.

This all occured after the time of Prophet Mohammad Peace Be Upon Him, (even though I'm not Muslim).

So there you have it, Astrology is fake.

[gypsy]

So in hindsight basically what I'm saying is, if Bazi only makes sense in Hindsight that means it's not real because whatever you look at in Hindsight can you make up every little excuse for whatever happened. YOu can analyze every little clash, or combination, hidden stems, destructive elements, pressure, five element interactions and come with some kind of excuse. Your mind can trick you and you can cherry pick data egocentrically and you can twist and change everything until it makes sense again. Then you come to a supposedly scientific solution or conclusion.

i agree with you.
and it's not only bazi or other astrology method, but i think that's what happens in life in general.
without those methods, we can pretty much tell what other people are like. we judge them according to our perspective.
Without knowing bazi though, some people will think that others think and feel the way they do.
The more you try to find facts and events in the world, the more distorted your view of the world will become.

And, what is religion for or astrology for you were asking?
It's for the same reason you seek to learn this in the first place. Because you can't find answers for your behaviour, for your thinking. So you need something sensible to fulfil your mind and curiousity. But in the end, answers will only give you more questions. Because human don't just grow up, their minds evolve.
Those believers (religion or other stuffs) they simply need something to believe that they're not alone. That something's watching their backs while they're right here, doing shit in life.

And for you, you're a believer that there's nothing to believe.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
But just one point, don't ever attack other people's beliefs. You'll be you, let them be them. That's the most important rule.
I'm not saying this cos i'm a believer or that i'm religious (my mom's been telling me to pray pray pray, go to church. i always ignore her. she used to drag me out of my bed and we had arguments all the time cos she tried to make me go to church. i still don't go.)

Like what my friend said, "It's like you're telling kids that Santa Claus is not real."

Btw, what do you expect??? That bazi can 100 % tell you what's gonna happen?
Won't that be scary??? that would make life soooooo boring.
And in the end, what's the point in living when you know the full story of yourself.
It's like reading a book, go straight to the last chapter, and that's it.

So relax. Don't try so hard to find answers.

[karenchantel]

Lately I've noticed I've been cherry-picking data. Meaning I'm forgetting what contradicts Bazi and remembering what goes with Bazi. Half of what Bazi says is wrong, the other half is right. Half of the things in a person's chart are right the other half are wrong.

I've been looking at my chart and the charts of several friends and I have noticed how things don't make sense or contradictions or just plain simply how Bazi is wrong.

Hi creekist, would like to check with u, was ur conclusion for bazi "results" based on ur own reading of bazi or have u actually get a certain numbers of professional reading done by well-known masters in this industry to come out with such conclusion?

And even if something is wrong my mind or the mind of a person who reads Bazi can simply twist it around and come up with some kind of a solution as to how it is right or make sense.

Hmm, if a person is firm on his standing, then no one can change his mindset easily... if after an explanation of another person can makes us feel logical (make sense), isn't it considered enlightenment if we holds a positive mindset in "receiving"?

I even took the birthdates of 107 Serial Killers and took their Daymaster and Strength and there is nothing significant about it. There is a kind of equal distribution of the Serial Killers among the elements but not really so equal in terms of strength. But hey what can you expect it's only 100 people, some variation has to occur. Plus I was using a calculator or a formula in both situations for calculating Strength which could have lead to bias, even though it would have been more biased if I had assessed strength.

Personally i have not done such reading yet, but if there is no significant differences in the strength of the DM, then it can only shows that the strength of DM does not influences the tendency of a person to becomes a serial killer, such conclusion cannot substitute to ur stand of bazi is 50% correct while 50% incorrect as u also can't proves which of the 50% of their bazi "results" u get from ur reading is correct and which 50% are incorrect.

My point is do you or do you not believe in Bazi in the depths of your heart do you really think Bazi is real. Were you just looking for answers in a confusing time. Do you think what does Time and Date of birth have anything to do with what type of person I am at all.

Personally, i believe that bazi contain the secret to what holds in our destiny and i did not start learning chinese metaphysics including bazi only after i have met with any kind of trouble in life, i started out with a positive mindset after i am amazed by the prediction of numerous forecast. I believe that the date and time of our birth holds the important keys to what destiny have in store for us. Destiny is fixed, but our fate and luck are not fixed as fate is the result of our actions and decision we made in life (some refer it as karma) so birth detail does not necessary subject to 100% of our character in life as a person may be born impulsive and after he have understand his negative traits and he chooses to make the effort to always think before he reacts, he too can make a great different in terms of his characters, BUT he would still return to his "usual" self if he does not make the effort to control his negative traits.

Another example is a person who are born with a "beautiful" destiny (chart), but does not make the effort to attain them after he had his reading done, and he expect all good fortune to be landed on him without any efforts, he may have a rather smooth life BUT he would not be able to reach his full potential as what is stated in his destiny.

This can be explain in the the logic of tian, di, ren (heaven, earth, human). Heaven may have gave u a good start, but the person decided to go against the norm thus it would effect the overall results. It is not hard to understand that opposition would lead to some form of difficulties/hinders success to a certain extend.

There have been numerous scientific tests to find out whether Astrology was real at all. In some of them I read it was as if the results were pulled out of a random number generator, 50/50.

Plus it's also hard to tell if Bazi is right anyways, Bazi says something, your parents say something. But who's right, maybe your parents are lying or are just saying you're special. As parents are obviously biased towards you. So in cases it's perception and the way you believe or what you think reality is according to what Bazi tells you. Maybe you think you're gay but you're really not but Bazi tells you, you are not Gay and then you're like but I am Gay. But how would you know if you're not Gay or not. You only think you're Gay but you don't know that, how would you know, Bazi was going to tell you, lol.

Bazi (or other form of metaphysics) is a tool used to measure quality of destiny, being a tool, it require the skills of the user to reach its full potential.

An axe can be used to chop a tree, but a 6 years old child may not have the ability to chop that tree, can we conclude that that axe will not be able to used to chop a tree?

On ur question of u feels that u are a gay, while the person analysis ur chart was not able to conclude that from his reading of ur chart, this can only proves that this person may not be skillful to spot such traits in his own understanding of this art. BUT non of us, unless that person have fully understand the whole concept of how bazi before he is able to make any comment as to was bazi able to foretell such traits.

Which leads to the question of what is real and what is not real. How can we know this is real, how can we know we are not distorting this beyond reality.

Which leads to Solipsism.

So hands down what do you think. It's kind of funny but have you noticed how ridiculous it is to believe in religions. I mean there is no single speck of evidence supporting or not supporting Christianity and all other religions. IT'S SO RIDICULOUS. I MEAN HOW COULD GOD BE REAL AT ALL, TURNING WATER INTO WINE? NOBODY HAS EVEN SEEN OR DONE ANYTHING LIKE THAT. But I mean nobody thinks about it that way. They don't feel it's ridiculous, in their heart they believe and feel it's real and they go along with it. But if you introduce your logical mind to it it recoils. You think wait a minute WTF how could this be real at all. I mean I use to believe in Buddhism (maybe I still am) but) I realized I had seen no evidence for reincarnation for desire leading to suffering (even though logically it's kind of true) or evidence of enlightenment but I still believed it. And then you realize members of a religion don't necessarily actually believe in it like all the stuff they can't prove or disprove but they are still part of it, they kind of speculate about it but don't necessarily believe about it. They hope on it?

To a person who is religious, he won't feel ridiculous but those who are not might have such thoughts.

Yes, there may not have any concrete evidence to support a certain stand on religious issue, but then again there are also no answer with concrete evidence as to how the 1st human was created on earth, or even till now, no one is able to answer the question of "eggs or chicken comes 1st"?

Actually it is only after logic can't explain on something that is when human starts to refer them to higher beings, and in life, there are lots of things which logic can't explain till maybe after "someone" who are able to prove it.

Example, just like when Pythagoras and Plato mentioned that Earth is round, but how many believe them? Only after Aristotle was able to prove that theory, then people starts to believe.

Religion is a very sensitive topic and is subjective to individual, so it is best not to dissuasion it in forum as it may lead to some form of disagreement. 

[eowsl]

I think it's real, it's one of the source of identifying yourself and could give u indication of what's coming. If i don't think it's real i wouldn't have spend so much to attend course.

[sgmeridian]

Ok first how old are you and second of all I'm not like a noob analyzer.

I don't go look at the DM and say hey he is Jia Wood he must be lucky, but he's not. I have never thought like that and I never will.

I have read that there are many beginner practitioners who have done that but I haven't.

If you interpret something then anything goes.

Here's a chart...

Ah nvm there's just no point arguing with you.

I'm not some noob who is just complaining I have looked for years for answer I've been a part of various religions, I have researched various paranormal phenomena, I've researched psychology and psychiatry in depth as well.

Hi creekist,

From what I'm observing of your posts, this really isn't about whether or not BaZi is real or not, is it?

Using my knowledge of psychology, you sound more like a person that is just looking for meaning in life.  What is the point of living?  What the hell am I here for?

I can relate because I was in a similar position just recently.  Smashed everything I thought I knew and understood.  No longer took anything for granted.  Began questioning everything, even the foundations of basic knowledge all my other knowledge was built on.

All I can say is, what got me to start understanding everything better, began with trying to understand myself.  The simple questions of "who the hell am I" and "how do I define myself" have gotten me very far with my new way of perceiving the world.

My questions to you:
1) Do you know who you are?
2) How do you define yourself?


And to answer your question, I think BaZi IS real.  But you can only use it to predict the future if you KNOW WHO YOU ARE and UNDERSTAND YOURSELF.  Once you do, looking through the BaZi and turning it into interpretations on what will happen to you in the future actually comes pretty easily because you understand the choice you will make when you see something like, say, a clash or combination, etc that occurs.

[creekist]

I think none of you have read what I said.

Bazi is so complex with so many different things, it has hidden stems, symbolic stars, combinations, five-element interactions and formulas, ten deities, month branch, yong shen, strength, temperature, dry-wet, luck cycle, pillar representaions, chart types, clashes, production, distance, location, environment, feng shui related or relations, chart structure observations, missing elements, element percentages, DM personalities, small luck cycles, extra pillars, family interactions, elemental strength (which is really subjective and there can be many different interpretations, I even came across a book, if you guys remember my chart that said Fire would end up being my strongest element in my chart, or at least a lot stronger then it looked in the chart, a lot stronger than one hidden stem), stems and branches, 12 qi phases, roots, pillars etc.

I mean Astrologers differ on a lot of these things in the first place. And any one of their different views can be true in your case leading more people to believe in Astrology as many Astrologers have different points of view, one of them is bound to believe in what you're thinking or at least have the conclusion that matches what happened in the past and can explain and also offer a solution. But that makes Bazi unreal. Leading people to think Bazi is real, but that makes Bazi real in every occasion, which makes it unreal.



It has so many things that in the end you can look at it in any way and any one of those things can be true. Because they can all say different things and you can just take whichever one of them to be true and that makes Bazi true. Because all those things encompasses every single possibility of what will happen. And with little combining of the elements (the parts of Bazi I don't mean the actual elements) you can make up a solution to any situation a reason or a conclusion.



On the other hand maybe Bazi is not so complex but it just seems to be. I never get any answers it just gets more and more complicated, and I never get anywhere, as I delve deeper and deeper and look harder and harder Bazi starts to contradict itself and becomes complex, then I start to get confused.

The reason why Bazi seems so complex after studying it because in order to explain what doesn't make sense about your chart you study other or look for more complex answers, such as transformed charts, follow charts, solar vs lunar calendar, hidden combination charts, hidden stem clash charts, hidden clash charts. I MEAN THERE ARE CLASHES BETWEEN HIDDEN STEMS ALL THE TIME WHAT"S THE PROBABILITY OF HAVING A HIDDEN STEM CHART WHILE HAVING SOME OTHER KIND OF CHART AT THE SAME TIME... VERY HIGH!!!!! AND YOU CAN"T BE TWO CHARTS AT THE SAME TIME, OR CAN YOU?!??!!?!? NEW CONCLUSION... !!! !!! GASP. Oh well, and in the end all these things contradict themselves yet they all present themselves as answers. Every time you study a chart it presents a different conclusion, answer or belief.

For example let's say theires a famous dancer:

HIs chart is:

Fire Wood Fire Fire
Fire Fire   Fire  Fire


and another famous dancer his chart is:

Water Wood Water Water
Water Water Water Water


They both are definitle not the same and they both don't make sense since both of their conclusions that come from the chart contradict each other. You get these different findings all the time in Bazi charts when you read other people's and other famous people's for conclusions. When you get these different results you immediately try to reconcile them or those obviously different conclusions or solutions which obviously contradicting by making up some new theory or hypothesis. After some more pondering a solution or conclusion which fits both charts becomes apparent.

Ultimately however as you study more to study this phenomenon your theory or hypothesis becomes contradicted again, purely because Bazi isn't real and the pillars are random for famous people, so you reform hypothesises over and over again, and interactions combinations complications become more and more complex as you try to form hypothesis over and over again and attempt to reoncile all conclusions...


From a set of data that holds absolutely no meaning whatsoever, and this is what bothers people and me.

I mean it would suck if everything came from birthdate.

I hope you get what I'm saying, if you don't read it over again and think about it hard until you get it. I didn't say it so well.

[sgmeridian]

I think none of you have read what I said.

Bazi is so complex with so many different things, it has hidden stems, symbolic stars, combinations, five-element interactions and formulas, ten deities, month branch, yong shen, strength, temperature, dry-wet, luck cycle, pillar representaions, chart types, clashes, production, distance, location, environment, feng shui related or relations, chart structure observations, missing elements, element percentages, DM personalities, small luck cycles, extra pillars, family interactions, elemental strength (which is really subjective and there can be many different interpretations, I even came across a book, if you guys remember my chart that said Fire would end up being my strongest element in my chart, or at least a lot stronger then it looked in the chart, a lot stronger than one hidden stem), stems and branches, 12 qi phases, roots, pillars etc.

I mean Astrologers differ on a lot of these things in the first place. And any one of their different views can be true in your case leading more people to believe in Astrology as many Astrologers have different points of view, one of them is bound to believe in what you're thinking or at least have the conclusion that matches what happened in the past and can explain and also offer a solution. But that makes Bazi unreal. Leading people to think Bazi is real, but that makes Bazi real in every occasion, which makes it unreal.



It has so many things that in the end you can look at it in any way and any one of those things can be true. Because they can all say different things and you can just take whichever one of them to be true and that makes Bazi true. Because all those things encompasses every single possibility of what will happen. And with little combining of the elements (the parts of Bazi I don't mean the actual elements) you can make up a solution to any situation a reason or a conclusion.



On the other hand maybe Bazi is not so complex but it just seems to be. I never get any answers it just gets more and more complicated, and I never get anywhere, as I delve deeper and deeper and look harder and harder Bazi starts to contradict itself and becomes complex, then I start to get confused.

The reason why Bazi seems so complex after studying it because in order to explain what doesn't make sense about your chart you study other or look for more complex answers, such as transformed charts, follow charts, solar vs lunar calendar, hidden combination charts, hidden stem clash charts, hidden clash charts. I MEAN THERE ARE CLASHES BETWEEN HIDDEN STEMS ALL THE TIME WHAT"S THE PROBABILITY OF HAVING A HIDDEN STEM CHART WHILE HAVING SOME OTHER KIND OF CHART AT THE SAME TIME... VERY HIGH!!!!! AND YOU CAN"T BE TWO CHARTS AT THE SAME TIME, OR CAN YOU?!??!!?!? NEW CONCLUSION... !!! !!! GASP. Oh well, and in the end all these things contradict themselves yet they all present themselves as answers. Every time you study a chart it presents a different conclusion, answer or belief.

For example let's say theires a famous dancer:

HIs chart is:

Fire Wood Fire Fire
Fire Fire   Fire  Fire


and another famous dancer his chart is:

Water Wood Water Water
Water Water Water Water


They both are definitle not the same and they both don't make sense since both of their conclusions that come from the chart contradict each other. You get these different findings all the time in Bazi charts when you read other people's and other famous people's for conclusions. When you get these different results you immediately try to reconcile them or those obviously different conclusions or solutions which obviously contradicting by making up some new theory or hypothesis. After some more pondering a solution or conclusion which fits both charts becomes apparent.

Ultimately however as you study more to study this phenomenon your theory or hypothesis becomes contradicted again, purely because Bazi isn't real and the pillars are random for famous people, so you reform hypothesises over and over again, and interactions combinations complications become more and more complex as you try to form hypothesis over and over again and attempt to reoncile all conclusions...


From a set of data that holds absolutely no meaning whatsoever, and this is what bothers people and me.

I mean it would suck if everything came from birthdate.

I hope you get what I'm saying, if you don't read it over again and think about it hard until you get it. I didn't say it so well.

Let me guess, you calculated your BaZi and didn't like the result, hence you no longer want to believe in destiny.

You want to believe that YOU are in control of your own fate, your own destiny.

It has so many things that in the end you can look at it in any way and any one of those things can be true.

No, actually this is not true at all.  Only if you are really confused on what you are looking at (e.g. have no idea about the real character of the person you are doing the BaZi reading of, don't know anything of about the person your are doing the reading of) will you have problems looking at the BaZi.

If no one else, you should be able to completely understand YOUR OWN BaZi because you know exactly has happened in your own life.  Does the BaZi fit what happened in your life?  If not, there may be an error in the time (such as needing a correction for Daylight Savings Time for those born in the summer) and you just have to readjust.  Once you get the right date and time, you'll see that it completely explains what happened in your past (which you can verify since, well, it's YOU) and then start looking into the future.

You'll know what the combos, clashes, etc mean, because you know your own self.  You know what it is that will cause something like this because you know what you would do in a situation like this.

Understanding BaZi isn't about hoping to be rich or famous or whatever, it's about preparing yourself.

Like Joey Yap said, what good is reading about today's weather forecast if you don't prepare by bring an umbrella when it says that it will rain?

Same with BaZi.  You look at the very troubling times in your BaZi and mentally prepare.  Or stop investing when you see that you are going to hit a Rob Wealth LP or AP.  Or save up because it looks like you are going to lose your job.

There most certainly IS NOT the ability to look at things and justify it in every which way if you are trying to predict the future because...it hasn't happened yet.  Once you start using BaZi to predict the future and not to justify the past, you will see the true point of BaZi.

I agree with you that anyone can take a BaZi and spin it to fit something that already happened, but there's no way they can do that with events that haven't happened yet.

Plus, who cares about someone else's BaZi and whether you get it right?

The only person's BaZi you need to understand and get right though, is YOUR OWN.