Rat Hour = New Day in accordance to the Lunar Calendar

[jerrylew]

Dear Scorpio.matrix

Just a bit discussion.

Without knowing how the ancient determined the "Zi hour", how can we be sure that Zi hour is between 11:00 hrs pm-01.00 hrs the following day ?


          Regards

           Jerry

[jerrylew]

Hi Jerry,

It is based on Han dynasty's "shi er pi gua".

Hi Meek

Would you like to explain,how did those ancient experts determine "the shi er pi gua" ?


           Regards

            Jerry

[RapaNui]

how can we be sure that Zi hour is between 11:00 hrs pm-01.00 hrs the following day ?

My questions are :
- do you agree Wu hour is between 11:00 am - 1:00 pm (13:00) ?
- do you agree the center of Wu hour is the center of a day (noon) when the sun is in its highest position ?
 
If the center of Wu hour is the center of a day, so the center of Zi hour is the center of a night when the day begins......
If a day begins at the beginning of Zi hour so the center of a day should be in the beginning of Wu hour (11:00 - not 12:00).
 

[Stayfi]

all the though game is to choose from which point in the earth to start 

[moonchin]

Date of Birth: 23 October 1985

Time: 23:13pm

Bazi Chart:

Time       Day       Month     Year

戊　　　　丙　　　　丙　　　　乙　　　　　　

子　　　　申　　　　戌　　　　丑
癸　　   戊壬庚　　丁辛戊　　辛癸己

Was this guy born in Malaysia?  If he was, did you take into consideration Malaysia's DST?  The original Malayan Standard time was 0600:46:48 hrs during colonial times.  It was switched to +0730 hrs on 15th Feb. 1941.  The last adjustment was done on 1st Jan. 1982 when it was adjusted to +0800 GMT.


MoonChin

[blah]

Basically he's saying you're going to have to minus around an hour and a half of time.

Depending where you are of course.

Could be less, or much less.

[Stayfi]

not every 2 hours?

[blah]

No, basically whatever your birth time is, let's 2:00

You minus around 1:30 minutes depending on where you are.

And your new birth time is :30 AM or PM or whatever 2:00 .

You basically minus 1:30 minutes from your birth time to change it.

[Stayfi]

hmm, I used softwares that said 2H
But thanks for clearing it to me

[learnerforlife]

Date of Birth: 23 October 1985

Time: 23:13pm

Bazi Chart:

Time       Day       Month     Year

戊　　　　丙　　　　丙　　　　乙　　　　　　

子　　　　申　　　　戌　　　　丑
癸　　   戊壬庚　　丁辛戊　　辛癸己

This is what I know of this guy whom I've known for 2 years

Introverted,

Thinker (thinks a lot!)

Likes attention but seldom gets it (a case of a Bing Fire born at night - no sunlight!)

Split personality ie chatty one day and moody the next

Frequent mood swings

Kind towards the under privileged

Ruthless in achieving his goals ie does whatever it takes - Due to his hidden seven killings?

Quite round looking. Not overweight but looks round (vintage physical appearance of a Bing?)

Doesn't like competition and gets emotional when he's being outperformed.

Better terms with friends and his sister rather than parents (case of Bing Day master closer to the another Bing in the month whilst further from the Yi?)

Good leadership - Great at taking on responsibility!

Stubborn and doesn't easily takes the advice of people.

That's all I shall disclose thus far.

Masters, agree?

I am surprised at how people are not really always willing to test their skills and test with reall cases if the theories can be used best by reading real cases

Well you provided this one, I provided mine, but more are needed, and also feedback is needed to come to a common conclusion.

I see some of those traits you mention from this person in myself, except that I don't find myself ruthless and I am not round looking in the face (but looks are also a version of genes so can be discarded), but IMHO it is not quite as accurate to put forth personality traits as it is of events in one life. Personality traits come also from the EB's. Real events and life story is something we need to test I believe. So can you share more on that?

[scorpio.matrix]

My questions are :
- do you agree Wu hour is between 11:00 am - 1:00 pm (13:00) ?
- do you agree the center of Wu hour is the center of a day (noon) when the sun is in its highest position ?
 
If the center of Wu hour is the center of a day, so the center of Zi hour is the center of a night when the day begins......
If a day begins at the beginning of Zi hour so the center of a day should be in the beginning of Wu hour (11:00 - not 12:00).
 

Greetings RapaNui,
                         I agree to both of your questions without any doubt.

                         The center of the day is indeed the Wu Hour, which runs from 11:00hrs to 13:00hrs. We don't say that 12.00 is the center of the day in the context of Shi Chen 时辰 but that it is 正午时 - mid horse hour - that is the peak of Yang Qi.

Thanks. 

[scorpio.matrix]

Was this guy born in Malaysia?  If he was, did you take into consideration Malaysia's DST?  The original Malayan Standard time was 0600:46:48 hrs during colonial times.  It was switched to +0730 hrs on 15th Feb. 1941.  The last adjustment was done on 1st Jan. 1982 when it was adjusted to +0800 GMT.


MoonChin

Dear Moochin,
                    This guy was born in Germany and in my opinion, the key to ascertaining the hour is that synchronocity and affinity will appropriately reflect and correct the chart. Since that is the hour written on your birth certificate, and so, that is the hour that is used because you have an affinity or connection to that hour. The other safe assumption that can be used is that synchronicity in the universe means that if it was to be the case that you have that chart, you will have that chart. In other words, it was meant to be that the nurse looked up 20 minutes AFTER you were born, and wrote a time that was 20 minutes later, possibly carrying you into the next hour. The same principle applies for man-made changes to time as well.

                    I don't believe into making adjustments because the Chart and luck pillars are Heavenly luck after all. It's given from someone up there and all the more so that time is the smallest denominator amongst the 4 pillars. So better not change and as with what Bazi masters in mainland would advise as well.

Thanks.

[scorpio.matrix]

I am surprised at how people are not really always willing to test their skills and test with reall cases if the theories can be used best by reading real cases

Well you provided this one, I provided mine, but more are needed, and also feedback is needed to come to a common conclusion.

I see some of those traits you mention from this person in myself, except that I don't find myself ruthless and I am not round looking in the face (but looks are also a version of genes so can be discarded), but IMHO it is not quite as accurate to put forth personality traits as it is of events in one life. Personality traits come also from the EB's. Real events and life story is something we need to test I believe. So can you share more on that?

Dear learnerforlife,
                         I agree, I agree! 
 
                        We are starved for case study and Prof/Master manty! I wonder where he is? 

SM.                         

[jerrylew]

My questions are :
- do you agree Wu hour is between 11:00 am - 1:00 pm (13:00) ?
- do you agree the center of Wu hour is the center of a day (noon) when the sun is in its highest position ?
 
If the center of Wu hour is the center of a day, so the center of Zi hour is the center of a night when the day begins......
If a day begins at the beginning of Zi hour so the center of a day should be in the beginning of Wu hour (11:00 - not 12:00).
 

In the daytime we can use the sun as the physical frame of reference to determine the time. But in the evening , especially when there is no moon, the ancient must use the other physical frame of reference to determine the time. Remember that the ancient didn't use the time division system as we use to day. In the old stories when people wanted to know the time ,they usually looked at the sky.

By knowing how the ancient determine the Zi hour we can precisely convert it to our time division system.!
By knowing the  philosophycal basis to determine the beginning of a day we will know whether a day is began at the Zi hour or at the late Zi hour !

      regards

      Jerry

[scorpio.matrix]

In the daytime we can use the sun as the physical frame of reference to determine the time. But in the evening , especially when there is no moon, the ancient must use the other physical frame of reference to determine the time. Remember that the ancient didn't use the time division system as we use to day. In the old stories when people wanted to know the time ,they usually looked at the sky.

By knowing how the ancient determine the Zi hour we can precisely convert it to our time division system.!
By knowing the  philosophycal basis to determine the beginning of a day we will know whether a day is began at the Zi hour or at the late Zi hour !

      regards

      Jerry

Jerry,
       The late Zi hour's from 23:00hrs to 0000hrs (the day which Zi hour starts) and Zi hour starts at 23:00hrs as well. Which is precisely why distorting it into Late/Early is invalid and wrong.

       I think it's clear from experienced and experienced practitioners like manty, quah and mainland masters that Zi hour is the Zi hour. And as to 'By knowing how the ancient determine the Zi hour we can precisely convert it to our time division system.! By knowing the  philosophycal basis to determine the beginning of a day we will know whether a day is began at the Zi hour or at the late Zi hour !', haha pardon me but this is not for both you and I to decide.

       As I have mentioned, we are of NO authority to manipulate the rules of Zi Ping Bazi and hence, even if you were to spend your life investigating ancient philosophy etc, it's not going to get you anywhere because the Zi Hour is the Zi Hour that dawns a new day (you're just mundanely pitting yourself on a convention that cannot be challenged). So I would advise that you focus on case studies to prevail on any of your stand instead. If you are interested in conceptual debates, then this is surely not the thread for you because I've already highlighted that I do not want to derail fellow readers from the motion of this thread any further.

      So I welcome you to focus on case studies but advise you to refrain from trying to create complications out of set fundamentals - prior explanations are indeed more than sufficient to feed your Bazi education unless you're interested in ancient history, where this is the wrong arena for an education about. 

Thanks.

SM