Author Topic: 10 Heavenly Stems.  (Read 6183 times)

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Offline Tanpai

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Re: 10 Heavenly Stems.
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2008, 05:21:12 AM »
Hi quahbkc !

I say thank you for this clear answer. I see the differences the 4P and between QMDJ deities. These differences are whacking. I reckon that QMDJ deities are much more expressive, than that FP4 shows.

Offline sgmeridian

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Re: 10 Heavenly Stems.
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2008, 09:41:44 PM »
Hi, I am a newbie, but I was wondering, is it true that the HS is less important/more superficial than what is going on regarding the EB?  Or is what is occuring/the events with the HS just more apparent for everyone to see, whereas the EB clash/combine/etc is not usually visible to most people unless it also shows up in the HS?

HS = Heavenly Stem

HS1Jia
HS2Yi
HS3Bing
HS4Ding
HS5Wu
HS6Ji
HS7Geng
HS8Xin
HS9Ren
HS10Gui

 :D

Offline eowsl

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Re: 10 Heavenly Stems.
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2008, 07:16:56 AM »
HS is for ppl to see but EB is rooted .. for an instant, if u have wealth it's best to be on EB as it is rooted if it's only on HS, it means that ppl see that u are rich but in actual fact you are not rich.

Offline sgmeridian

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Re: 10 Heavenly Stems.
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2008, 07:59:10 AM »
So for people that have only in HS but not in EB, it's like those who drive around in Mercedes and Lexuses have a big house, but they only can afford it because they took out loans to get it and not because they actually make enough money to buy them?

HS is for ppl to see but EB is rooted .. for an instant, if u have wealth it's best to be on EB as it is rooted if it's only on HS, it means that ppl see that u are rich but in actual fact you are not rich.

Offline eowsl

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Re: 10 Heavenly Stems.
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2008, 11:19:09 PM »
Yes. This is what i understand  ;)

Offline sgmeridian

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Re: 10 Heavenly Stems.
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2008, 11:31:37 PM »
Yes. This is what i understand  ;)

Ok great.  Thanks a lot!  ~O0

Offline woffy

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Re: Combination of 10 Heavenly Stems.
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2009, 12:54:35 AM »
HS1 + HS6 combine as Earth
HS2 + HS7 combine as Metal
HS3 + HS8 combine as Water
HS4 + HS9 combine as Wood
HS5 + HS10 combine as Fire

 :)

Hi Just want to know it the combined element has the + / - in it since the JY books i read never said any + / - of these combination.

Thanks


Offline cocodine

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Re: 10 Heavenly Stems.
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2009, 04:35:24 AM »
HS = Heavenly Stem
+ is Yang
- is Yin

Elements
HS1Jia+Wood
HS2Yi-Wood
HS3Bing+Fire
HS4Ding-Fire
HS5Wu+Earth
HS6Ji-Earth
HS7Geng+Metal
HS8Xin-Metal
HS9Ren+Water
HS10Gui-Water

Notice that Odd numbers are Yang, and Even numbers are Yin.

 :D

Hi, I am re-learning the basics again and I am curious as to why the HS are assigned with the said elements, eg., HS1 = +Jia Wood while HS3 = -Bing Fire, and is there any relation in terms of the stem's nature and hence, consider HS1 to be Wood.  If it is Wood, why Jia? Pardon me, for I am re-learning to walk once again.  :) 

Online Manty

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Re: 10 Heavenly Stems.
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2009, 01:14:51 PM »
Greetings Cocodine:

Hi, I am re-learning the basics again and I am curious as to why the HS are assigned with the said elements, eg., HS1 = +Jia Wood while HS3 = -Bing Fire, and is there any relation in terms of the stem's nature and hence, consider HS1 to be Wood.  If it is Wood, why Jia? Pardon me, for I am re-learning to walk once again.  :)  

I am not sure what is your question exactly, but I will attempt to say a few things in the hope that they may help.  I am doing this, in part, because I told Bazisuanming in one of my previous posts, that I will write some messages on the very basics of Bazi and you have given me a good reason to do so.

There are several ways in which the heavenly stems are presented.  The sequence is the same but the starting point may vary.  Historically the stems may begin with water, metal and wood.  Currently wood is the starting point.

Why?  That is difficult to say.  I will tell you my own thoughts on this.

1.  The sequence of stems always starts with a yang stem followed by a yin stem.  Currently we use Wood as a starting point, hence it starts with yang wood.  Wood represents that stage of Qi or Energy that is springing out, emerging, growing, bestowing life enhancing energy and the ancient saw in nature that wood (this character in ancient times also meant plants) is analogous to the behavior and characteristic of emerging qi.  So it is quite logical to start with wood.  Of course, wood needs water to grow, so water is also a logical point to start.  And water needs metal... and so on... hence it is called a cycle.

2.  To start something in Metaphysics one needs to tap on yang energy, energy which helps us come out and go up to the top... then, anything that has arrived at its fruition needs to lessen its impetus, its drive and this is yin energy.  Thus, this is why for me, yin comes after yang in the sequence of stems.

I also think you are asking about the unions and transformations of the heavenly stems.

To understand this we need to know that stems can have basically three kinds of relationships.  A friendly one called union (合), a beligerant one called clash (沖) and a  slightly aggressive one called control (剋).

Actually both unions and clashes are predicated in a controling relationship.

3.  When the control relationship among the stems happens between stems of different polarity (one is yang and the other one is yin), then this is called "control with tenderness or feeling" or in Chinese 有情之克.  

4.  When the control relationship among the stems takes place between stems of the same polarity (one is yang and the other one is also yang; or one is yin and the other one is yin), then this is called "control devoid or without tenderness or feeling", or in Chinese 無情之克.

When the relationship among the stems is one of control with tenderness, a union may ensue.  Example: Jia with Ji.  Jia is wood, Ji is earth.  Wood controls over Earth.  Jia wood is yang, Ji earth is yin.  Hence this control is with tenderness and hence union may come about.

When the relationship among the stems is one of control without tenderness, a clash may ensue.  Example: Jia with Geng.  Geng is metal, Jia is wood.  Metal controls over Wood.  Geng is yang metal and Jia is also yang wood.  Hence this is control without tenderness and hence a clash may occur.

Note that there are some exceptions to these considerations.

If you go back to your tables on stems and their relationships, you will see how the things I have written here will be reflected on them.

I hope this helps.

Manty "with tenderness".
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 04:45:24 PM by Manty »

Offline cocodine

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Re: 10 Heavenly Stems.
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2009, 09:19:37 AM »

I hope this helps.

Manty "with tenderness".

Dear Manty "with tenderness",

Sometimes I wonder if you can really remotely read my mind....  :o 

I am ever grateful for making my path to understanding brighter. :-*

Quote
I also think you are asking about the unions and transformations of the heavenly stems.

Am I right in thinking this usually occurs daily and monthly as well?

If so, should this apply for HHS? 

regards and ever grateful,

cocodine

Online fsa

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Re: 10 Heavenly Stems.
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2009, 10:50:53 AM »
Hi Cocodine and Manty,

I have a book here about the origin of the characters for the Stems and Branches and it says Jia 甲 was the name for the first tribe in the Shang Dynasty 商代 and the first tribal ruler was called Shang Jia 上甲. When tribes took turns to offer sacrifice to their gods or ancestors, the Jia tribe got the first day and it was called Jia Ri 甲日 and from there on it became the first of the 10 Heavenly Stems and also took on the meaning of being the first as in 桂林山水甲天下 (The landscape of Guilin is first under Heaven).

fsa

Online Manty

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Re: 10 Heavenly Stems.
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2009, 11:01:55 AM »
Hi FSA:

Hi Cocodine and Manty,

I have a book here about the origin of the characters for the Stems and Branches and it says Jia 甲 was the name for the first tribe in the Shang Dynasty 商代 and the first tribal ruler was called Shang Jia 上甲. When tribes took turns to offer sacrifice to their gods or ancestors, the Jia tribe got the first day and it was called Jia Ri 甲日 and from there on it became the first of the 10 Heavenly Stems and also took on the meaning of being the first as in 桂林山水甲天下 (The landscape of Guilin is first under Heaven).

fsa


That is an interesting info.  Would you be kind enough to provide me with the bibliographical info so that I may look for that book?  I am always doing research on this topic and if relevant, I would like to cite it properly.

Manty

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Re: 10 Heavenly Stems.
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2009, 11:08:10 AM »
Am I right in thinking this usually occurs daily and monthly as well?

If so, should this apply for HHS?  

Both clashes and unions of stems will reoccur many times over the 60 stem-branch cycle.  Since the years, months, days and hours are "counted" with the orderly sequence of the 60 stem-branch combination, then you will have the basic material with which to determine clashes and unions.  For instance, the stem of the year my clash with the stem of the month, the stem of the day may unite with the stem of the hour, and so on.  Hence you have date selection.

As for HHS, the answer is yes.  There are both hidden combinations or hidden unions (暗合) and hidden clashes (暗沖) among the HHS.  Usually, the rule is that they must be adjacent, however, there are many contemporary practitioners who ignore this rule.

I hope this helps.

Manty
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 04:47:20 PM by Manty »

Online fsa

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Re: 10 Heavenly Stems.
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2009, 11:29:55 AM »
Hi FSA:

That is an interesting info.  Would you be kind enough to provide me with the bibliographical info so that I may look for that book?  I am always doing research on this topic and if relevant, I would like to cite it properly.

Manty

Hi Manty,

The book is called "The Secret Codes to Chinese Characters" Hanzi Mima 漢字密碼 by Tang Han 唐漢 published by Zhonghua Shuju 中華書局 and I suppose you are also familiar with how the Stem are correlated to Wuxing:

     甲:像草木破土而萌,阳在内而被阴包裹。

  乙:草木初生,枝叶柔软屈曲。

  丙:炳也,如赫赫太阳,炎炎火光,万物皆炳燃着,见而光明。

  丁:草木成长壮实,好比人的成丁。

  戊:茂盛也,象征大地草木茂盛繁荣。

  己:起也,纪也,万物抑屈而起,有形可纪。

  庚:更也,秋收而待来春。

  辛:金味辛,物成而后有味,辛者,新也,万物肃然更改,秀实新成。

  壬:妊也,阳气潜伏地中,万物怀妊。

  癸:揆也,万物闭藏,怀妊地下,揆然萌芽。  


fsa

Offline cocodine

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Re: 10 Heavenly Stems.
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2009, 06:18:38 PM »
Hello Manty and fsa,

Thank you for sharing, for I have learned much and I am 'illuminated'.  I believe both of you to be my secret noblemen! ;D

I have to digest every bit of information before I can ask more questions, and I hope by then, I won't serve too troublesome to both noblemen.  ;D ;D


cheers,

cocodine
« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 06:22:53 PM by cocodine »

 

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